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[b]Mature Swingers[/b]
we seem to be getting into different threads.(but as an oldie goldie newbie I like this forum stuff)
Virgogirl, any guy young or old who thinks you or any woman should be grateful for sharing with him, I think should be banished to at home with the sunday dinner or jar of liver like Phillip Roth's Portnoy.
LONGJON, don't you rememeber the "free love" that went with the flower power & bell bottoms ( I'll never forget a hippy wedding in courttown PRE 1970)
LOngjon, forgot to say " changes in sexual thinking ? over the past fifty years?". Nothing about this is new .I think We are only getting back to normal after whatever ?? The dark ages?/late victorian? early 20th century ? periods of prudishness .How long is the kama sutra in existance. Patriarchy has a lot to answer for . Now there's a thread ?? anybody want to go into .
Ok Raven Patriarchy-discuss
... (the views expressed below are definately not mine)
I am out of here 
... lol...
courtesy of Wikipedia
Patriarchy is a social system in which the father or eldest male is head of the household, having authority over women and children. Patriarchy also refers to a system of government by males, and to the dominance of men in social or cultural systems.
Within feminist theory, patriarchy refers to the structure of modern cultural and political systems, which are ruled by men. Such systems are said to be detrimental to the rights of women. However, it has been noted that patriarchal systems of government do not benefit all men of all classes.
In the tradition of Socrates (470-399) who thought being born a woman was divine punishment, since a woman is halfway between a man and an animal.
In the Politics, Aristotle attempts to illustrate the nature of the hierarchies that exist in the political community and its subordinate communities. He argues for an origin of male rule. In Chapter Thirteen he states that men and women have different kinds of virtue, ‘just as those who are natural subjects differ (from those who rule by nature.'
In the 4th Century, the basic attitude was one of puzzlement over the seemingly incongruous fact of woman's existence. Augustine of Hippo said he could not see how a woman could be any help for a man if the work of childbearing is excluded. However, it was only with Thomas Acquinas in the 13th Century that Aristotle's teachings emerged in the official teachings of Roman Catholicism. Aristotle's assertion that women are misbegotten males can be found in the Summa Theologica, I, 92 I ad 1. The influence of combining Aristotle's theory with biblical interpretations can't be overestimated
Biology v. social construct debate
Charles Darwin wrote of the “difference in the mental powers of the two sexesâ€, making an analogy to the “lower animalsâ€, and concluding that woman’s “greater tenderness and less selfishness…her powers of intuition…and rapid perception…†were facilities characteristic of the lower races, “and therefore of a past and lower state of civilizationâ€.[21] Stephen R. L. Clark observes, "Not only is the mental and physical superiority of male to female assured, but even the characters in which women surpass men are suddenly symptomatic of an earlier and lower state of seems superfluous.".[22]
Starting from a foundation in the theories of biological evolution developed by Darwin, many 19th-century scholars formulated a linear theory of cultural evolution.[23] One hypothesis suggested that human social organization "evolved" through a series of stages: animalistic sexual promiscuity was followed by matriarchy, which was in turn followed by patriarchy. This description was later refuted by most experts studying the subject.[23]
However the biological justification for patriarchy did not begin with Charles Darwin, and work is currently being done on biological theories of human behavior. Today these theories have proponents in the field of sociobiology. Sociobiology regards the genetic structure as the prime motivator of social behavior. It follows that natural selection favors individuals who maximize their genetic fitness.[24]
A key factor in maximizing genetic fitness is the parental investment in the offspring. Since females have a greater investment than males they behave differently than males. Also, this investment in offspring leads to mutual exploitation between men and women. Conflict arises when both partners try to persuade the other to invest more time.[25] According to R. A. Sydie, a professor of sociology, sociobiologists believe that these theories explain female coyness and male philandering and aggressiveness. David P. Barash thought they illustrated the biological necessity of women being relegated to the nursery and men deriving satisfaction from their jobs
Most sociologists reject predominantly biological explanations of patriarchy and contend that social and cultural conditioning is primarily responsible for establishing male and female gender roles
Even in modern developed societies, however, gender messages conveyed by family, mass media, and other institutions largely favor males having a dominant status.
Patriarch magazine viewed its enemy as modern feminism. In one article, Lancaster wrote, "Christians are too busy trying to accommodate feminism. They do this by allowing women leaders in the church, by supporting the practice of women working outside the home, by encouraging unmarried daughters to leave home for college or career (thus promoting a spirit of independence), by teaching an egalitarian model of marriage, by sporting hyphenated last names, by importing 'gender-inclusive language' into hymns and even Bible translations, and in many other ways. Feminism is winning the ideological battle for our civilization, and Christians are among its casualties."
... lol...
courtesy of Wikipedia
Patriarchy is a social system in which the father or eldest male is head of the household, having authority over women and children. Patriarchy also refers to a system of government by males, and to the dominance of men in social or cultural systems.
Within feminist theory, patriarchy refers to the structure of modern cultural and political systems, which are ruled by men. Such systems are said to be detrimental to the rights of women. However, it has been noted that patriarchal systems of government do not benefit all men of all classes.
In the tradition of Socrates (470-399) who thought being born a woman was divine punishment, since a woman is halfway between a man and an animal.
In the Politics, Aristotle attempts to illustrate the nature of the hierarchies that exist in the political community and its subordinate communities. He argues for an origin of male rule. In Chapter Thirteen he states that men and women have different kinds of virtue, ‘just as those who are natural subjects differ (from those who rule by nature.'
In the 4th Century, the basic attitude was one of puzzlement over the seemingly incongruous fact of woman's existence. Augustine of Hippo said he could not see how a woman could be any help for a man if the work of childbearing is excluded. However, it was only with Thomas Acquinas in the 13th Century that Aristotle's teachings emerged in the official teachings of Roman Catholicism. Aristotle's assertion that women are misbegotten males can be found in the Summa Theologica, I, 92 I ad 1. The influence of combining Aristotle's theory with biblical interpretations can't be overestimated
Biology v. social construct debate
Charles Darwin wrote of the “difference in the mental powers of the two sexesâ€, making an analogy to the “lower animalsâ€, and concluding that woman’s “greater tenderness and less selfishness…her powers of intuition…and rapid perception…†were facilities characteristic of the lower races, “and therefore of a past and lower state of civilizationâ€.[21] Stephen R. L. Clark observes, "Not only is the mental and physical superiority of male to female assured, but even the characters in which women surpass men are suddenly symptomatic of an earlier and lower state of seems superfluous.".[22]
Starting from a foundation in the theories of biological evolution developed by Darwin, many 19th-century scholars formulated a linear theory of cultural evolution.[23] One hypothesis suggested that human social organization "evolved" through a series of stages: animalistic sexual promiscuity was followed by matriarchy, which was in turn followed by patriarchy. This description was later refuted by most experts studying the subject.[23]
However the biological justification for patriarchy did not begin with Charles Darwin, and work is currently being done on biological theories of human behavior. Today these theories have proponents in the field of sociobiology. Sociobiology regards the genetic structure as the prime motivator of social behavior. It follows that natural selection favors individuals who maximize their genetic fitness.[24]
A key factor in maximizing genetic fitness is the parental investment in the offspring. Since females have a greater investment than males they behave differently than males. Also, this investment in offspring leads to mutual exploitation between men and women. Conflict arises when both partners try to persuade the other to invest more time.[25] According to R. A. Sydie, a professor of sociology, sociobiologists believe that these theories explain female coyness and male philandering and aggressiveness. David P. Barash thought they illustrated the biological necessity of women being relegated to the nursery and men deriving satisfaction from their jobs
Most sociologists reject predominantly biological explanations of patriarchy and contend that social and cultural conditioning is primarily responsible for establishing male and female gender roles
Even in modern developed societies, however, gender messages conveyed by family, mass media, and other institutions largely favor males having a dominant status.
Patriarch magazine viewed its enemy as modern feminism. In one article, Lancaster wrote, "Christians are too busy trying to accommodate feminism. They do this by allowing women leaders in the church, by supporting the practice of women working outside the home, by encouraging unmarried daughters to leave home for college or career (thus promoting a spirit of independence), by teaching an egalitarian model of marriage, by sporting hyphenated last names, by importing 'gender-inclusive language' into hymns and even Bible translations, and in many other ways. Feminism is winning the ideological battle for our civilization, and Christians are among its casualties." Alan, what a wonderful treatise on the origins and or reasons for patriarchy.
But the bottom line is it exists in all our social and cultural conventions .
My comment about it having a lot to answer for was its effect in the past and still to this day continuing on our sexual thinking and attitudes .(see longjon changes in sexual thinking over the last 50 years )and virgogirls comment about a younger guy expecting an older woman to be grateful.(if his isnt a patriarchial attitude and stems from the concept of fucker and fuckee what isnt )
To me its best described by that comment of john mcgahern's "women enslave men with their sexual favours " His choice of the word "enslave" is not perhaps the most apt ,( whose complaining ) but this I think is the natural order in the context of woman takes mate (well up until weaning in anyway ) and the social and cultural conventions of patriarchy have been developed by men over millienia to overcome or turn around that gender situation which they didnt like i.e men developed cultural and social conventions so that they may own women and not be subject to them under the natural order.
It has been put forward e.g that one of the main reasons for the continuance of celibracy in the r.c,c is that rome does not want or is affraid of its clergy being "seduced" (in the broader context ) by a woman & therfore being more answerable to that woman than head office (the other reason was to do with property rights on death and inheritance.)
One theory abut its origin is that it goes back to our ape days when we didnt even have the mental faculties to understand procreation and the male through jealousy of the female who owned babies decided that he was going to own both .
In anyway all to boring stuff ,& sorry for going on
more importantly I think the thread should be about our sexual attitudes as a result of the social and cultural conventions of patriarchy wherever it came from and the sexual illusions and deprivations it has society living example
it is patriarchy that says a man takes a wife , and she takes his name .(and 100 years ago she had no rights so that he could totally own her )
it is patriarchy that says the sheikh has a harem but any of the harem cannot have multiple sheikhs .and outside marriage cannot even have a libido or she gets stoned or her hands cut off (western society was the same up to not so long ago )
It is patriarchy that dictates how a woman should behave/dress/express herself sexually or not etc so that she is always an encumbent of the man.
it is patriarchy that develped the concept of fucker and fuckee, the we will when I want it male and the male that thinks that he's the one who chats up etc and the female that waits till she's asked.
It has a lot to answer for.
The Gospel according to Virgogirl...
I am a woman , equal to a man, he may be physicaly stronger, but so what?
I am emotionaly stronger, but so what? He is my equal.
He has a dick , I have a pussy, both fit perfectly..
He may be on top, I may be on top, but we are both equal..
Here endeth the Gospel......
Sweet Jesus who wrote that load of :bs:. Good thing those old farts are in their grave or i would gladly put them there.
I have found many men still have that " me Tarzan you Jane" attitude. Maybe at the time of some of those studies women may not have been as strong physically as men, in the sense of hard labour, ie building, mining ect but that in part was due to the fact that most women had children and went without proper nutrition in order to feed their children and the "man of the house" a term i use loosely. But i will put forward the argument, it is women who give birth, one of the most physically demanding jobs a body can do. And men have the nerve to call women weak? Yes you will get men who will say they would have a baby if they could, i seriously doubt it, they would get one contraction and scream to be knocked out, that's if they could make it to that point as pregnancy is no picnic.
Also women have fought long and hard to get votes, freedom of speech, and basic human rights. Many women now hold high power jobs that would make many men crack under the pressure, as it is well known women are multi-taskers and have a lot of fore thought, after all is it not true that us ladies are devious bitches at the best of times and will back stab or do what ever is necessary to get what we want. They say men have the killer instinct lol women beat them hands down on that. Women after all will lay their lives on the line to protect their children, not saying men wont but maternal instinct is something that is exclusive to women alone
I know i have went off in tandem's here, but as a modern woman i find it so insulting that some men still think of us women as the weaker sex and that we should bow down before them and lick their boots.
I live with a man who is my equal in many ways but we both have our strengths and weakness, and where one falls down the other is there is help them up.
But to finish my little rant, women are better and i think burning our bras is a good idea, after all i need new ones lol
Warming the Bed
Didn't this start off as a thread about mature swingers 
Whatever mature means these days. I always think of cheddar cheese when i hear it.
lifes short , have fun, be happy!
Whatever mature means these days. I always think of cheddar cheese when i hear it.
lifes short , have fun, be happy! Quote by user=1yummymummy4u
Didn't this start off as a thread about mature swingers
lifes short , have fun, be happy!
Sorry was a mature memory loss moment ... but you on a cracker does sound interesting...:evil2:
Warming the Bed
Alan
Thats a very big cracker. Still its not the most unusual proposition I've got here
Yummy
Yummy Quote by user=ravenfire
:doh: OMG the smell of mature cheese:taz:
Not a great turn on to be honest, brings up the image of a 90 year old with his teeth out and dribbling, cock in hand saying come here little girl
Will never think of cheese in the same way again:upset:
Feck you have seen my picture so Raven oh well hey ho could be worse you could have seen the one before the penis enlargement.
PS only 89 years old tho, the rest unfortunately is fairly accurate. I would cry but it entails a visit to hospital to straighten my face out afterwards.
